Comments on: Stop Moving Around Until God Sends You Somewhere

By: sonofnimshi

sonofnimshi — Wed, 08 May 2013 00:12:19 +0000

@ollwenjones @ChrisMorton82 Ollwen, Excellent analysis. I think you nailed the church discussion and I agree with your conclusion.

As far as going “solo” or being an “individualist” or “consumerist” I’d have to disagree (in my case). I have been trying to find a church and I’ve met a lot of wonderful people with whom I am still in relationship. The problems have been with the leaders who seem to think “serve here (a.k.a. my vision) or you’re useless to me”. They really don’t know how to deal with someone who has come into their midst “to have the Gospel spoken into their life”. In my experience, they only know what to do with people who are looking for belonging/community. They focus on relationship at the expense of content. (Hope that makes sense.)

I’ll think on the expressions of the poor or persecuted church but since it is so foreign (and inaccessible) to my Western context. it seems unlikely to be anything more than just thought. It’s impossible to picture yourself as something you aren’t.

By: ollwenjones

ollwenjones — Tue, 07 May 2013 19:51:19 +0000

@sonofnimshi @ChrisMorton82 I’ll bite. Jesus says pretty explicitly he’s planning to establish his church (Matthew 16:18). You can argue about what he meant by that, but you can’t deny the intent is there. So I would argue that how you define church is the hinge point for the discussion, and whether we even know what you mean by the question “Did Jesus come to establish the church?” In the end the Church is the Saints gathered round the throne, the bride of Christ. Even if it were a means to an end, it’s a means still in action until Christ’s return.

It stands out to me that you have a high-church background, and that you left the ministry. Doubtless you have experienced some trauma at the hands of church institutions and/or church people, which makes it hard for you to return to them. Nevertheless, American individualism and American consumerism are both alien to the context Jesus spoke in. Your proximity-community may be a great place for mission, and they may know you better than you know yourself, but if it’s primarily a mission-field, who is going to speak the Gospel into your life when you need it, or hold you accountable to the Word?

That’s not to say there is never a time or season for solo missionary experience, or that some people are not gifted and called to that long-term, but I do not think it is the norm. Neither is that to say you should run into the nearest marble edifice, but involvement in some expression of Christ’s Body is important for the health of anyone spiritually a member of that body.

I find it helpful to consider the expressions of church in other parts of the world where poverty and persecution have forced a distillation of practices down to the bare essentials of faithfulness to Jesus and his teachings. If it can’t work in their context, it probably should never be more than peripheral. Simplistic, but clarifying for me.

On the positive side, I do think many of us ‘institutionalized’ Christians could learn a lot from someone like you, in terms of the practical discipleship of reaching our proximity communities, without the aid of “church” programs and activities.

By: ChrisMorton82

ChrisMorton82 — Tue, 07 May 2013 13:24:43 +0000

@sonofnimshi I’m afraid that the debate you want to have is out of the scope of this blog. May God send you where he can use you. May he send you other people to share who share that commission.

By: sonofnimshi

sonofnimshi — Tue, 07 May 2013 02:03:04 +0000

@ChrisMorton82 @sonofnimshi The question isn’t “What is church?” The question is “Did Jesus come to establish the church?” Do you think that was His purpose?

By: ChrisMorton82

ChrisMorton82 — Tue, 07 May 2013 01:25:14 +0000

@sonofnimshi As far as the whole “what is Church” question, I refer to my previous post to this one http://wp.me/p37SBp-1co.
As far as finding a church, I hope you will find a place you can be honest, and then serve. I love my church, and I pour my heart out for it. I also have problems with it. We’re far from perfect. I had to put a lot of ideals on the table to live in community.